Sunday, December 09, 2007

Difference Between India and Pakistan?

The Indian chromosome By Dr Farrukh Saleem
The News, December 09, 2007

Twenty-five thousand years ago, haplogroup R2 characterized by genetic marker M124 arose in southern Central Asia. Then began a major wave of human migration whereby members migrated southward to present-day India and Pakistan (Genographic Project by the National Geographic Society; http://www.nationalgeographic.com/). Indians and Pakistanis have the same ancestry and share the same DNA sequence. Here's what is happening in India:

The two Ambani brothers can buy 100 percent of every company listed on the Karachi Stock Exchange (KSE) and would still be left with $30 billion to spare. The four richest Indians can buy up all goods and services produced over a year by 169 million Pakistanis and still be left with $60 billion to spare. The four richest Indians are now richer than the forty richest Chinese.

In November, Bombay Stock Exchange's benchmark Sensex flirted with 20,000 points. As a consequence, Mukesh Ambani's Reliance Industries became a $100 billion company (the entire KSE is capitalized at $65 billion). Mukesh owns 48 percent of Reliance.

In November, comes Neeta's birthday. Neeta turned forty-four three weeks ago. Look what she got from her husband as her birthday present: A sixty-million dollar jet with a custom fitted master bedroom, bathroom with mood lighting, a sky bar, entertainment cabins, satellite television, wireless communication and a separate cabin with game consoles. Neeta is Mukesh Ambani's wife, and Mukesh is not India's richest but the second richest.

Mukesh is now building his new home, Residence Antillia (after a mythical, phantom island somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean). At a cost of $1 billion this would be the most expensive home on the face of the planet. At 173 meters tall Mukesh's new family residence, for a family of six, will be the equivalent of a 60-storeyed building. The first six floors are reserved for parking. The seventh floor is for car servicing and maintenance. The eighth floor houses a mini-theatre. Then there's a health club, a gym and a swimming pool. Two floors are reserved for Ambani family's guests. Four floors above the guest floors are family floors all with a superb view of the Arabian Sea. On top of everything are three helipads. A staff of 600 is expected to care for the family and their family home.

In 2004, India became the 3rd most attractive foreign direct investment destination. Pakistan wasn't even in the top 25 countries. In 2004, the United Nations, the representative body of 192 sovereign member states, had requested the Election Commission of India to assist the UN in the holding of elections in Al Jumhuriyah al Iraqiyah and Dowlat-e Eslami-ye Afghanestan. Why the Election Commission of India and not the Election Commission of Pakistan? After all, Islamabad is closer to Kabul than is Delhi.

Imagine, 12 percent of all American scientists are of Indian origin; 38 percent of doctors in America are Indian; 36 percent of NASA scientists are Indians; 34 percent of Microsoft employees are Indians; and 28 percent of IBM employees are Indians.

For the record: Sabeer Bhatia created and founded Hotmail. Sun Microsystems was founded by Vinod Khosla. The Intel Pentium processor, that runs 90 percent of all computers, was fathered by Vinod Dham. Rajiv Gupta co-invented Hewlett Packard's E-speak project. Four out of ten Silicon Valley start-ups are run by Indians. Bollywood produces 800 movies per year and six Indian ladies have won Miss Universe/Miss World titles over the past 10 years.

For the record: Azim Premji, the richest Muslim entrepreneur on the face of the planet, was born in Bombay and now lives in Bangalore. India now has more than three dozen billionaires; Pakistan has none (not a single dollar billionaire).

The other amazing aspect is the rapid pace at which India is creating wealth. In 2002, Dhirubhai Ambani, Mukesh and Anil Ambani's father, left his two sons a fortune worth $2.8 billion. In 2007, their combined wealth stood at $94 billion. On 29 October 2007, as a result of the stock market rally and the appreciation of the Indian rupee, Mukesh became the richest person in the world, with net worth climbing to US$63.2 billion (Bill Gates, the richest American, stands at around $56 billion).

Indians and Pakistanis have the same Y-chromosome haplogroup. We have the same genetic sequence and the same genetic marker (namely: M124). We have the same DNA molecule, the same DNA sequence. Our culture, our traditions and our cuisine are all the same. We watch the same movies and sing the same songs. What is it that Indians do and we don't: Indians elect their leaders.

The writer is an Islamabad-based freelance columnist. Email: farrukh15@hotmail.com

Related - Update:
India, Pakistan and Democracy - A Panel Discussion at Asia Society (video) - Feb 15, 2011

35 comments:

Basi Roti Phata Kapra said...

Great article, what Farrukh Saleem failed to mentioned is the leadership. India may have some corrupt leaders but what Indians are blessed not not have corrupt and kleptocartci leaders like Bibi Benazeer, Mian Sharif, the Prir Sahab of London Bhai Altaf, The Khans of mianwali and the list goes on and on. These so called leaders can go miles and miles to plunder Pakistan financially and morally. Have you ever seen any Indian opposition leader comming to Pakistan and talk bad about the Indian regime. Our Bibi and Mian will do this in a heart beat. Also what Dr. Saleem forget to mention is that India is not dominated by one ethnic group. Pakistan however is dominated my the Big Punjab.
Its not the truth but how you represent it.

Anonymous said...

Indian leaders are as corrupt and venal as in any other place (Sonia, Lalloo, Pawar etc.) what differentiates India from Pakistan is not any greater preference for morality or integrity in politics but institutions - some stronger than others. In Pakistan there is only one institution - the Army that has throttled all others since its birth. But as the previous poster has noted it does help that India is more heterogenous. In a country where Ahmediyas are termed non-Muslim and the only Nobel winner gets almost no mention but a kleptocrat scientist (AQK) is still idolized has a need for more introspection. Dr. Saleem has saying the right thing for years but few listen.

Basi Roti Phata Kapra said...

If Ahmadi's started calling themselves "Hindu's of Mirza Ghulam of Qadiayaan" The Indians will be be labeling any thingelse than Hindu. Perhaps anonymous should try this. Just give it a shot.

venu said...

Dr. Saleem's article is fact based and well written. I may add just one basic fact which seems to have escaped his attention. India today has more young men than old. Their psyche is more attuned to attain progress through scientific education and hard work, rather than worry about religion life elsewhere other than on this planet Earth.That is the reason you find every Corporation worth it's name grabs Indians for their hard work, learning and ability to deliver.On the contrary most young brothers in Pakistan never get to have scientific Education except in Madrasas where they learn religious subjects which do not necessarily provide them the wherewith all to progress economically. Some unlucky ones land up in Afghaistan to do their further training in activities which are indeed a very serious problem for Pakistan today. Genes are the same. It is how they are put to use and modelled.
vgopa_l@ hhotmail.com
NewDelhi

Mr. Naik said...

My dear B-R-F-K,

Ahmadias are more than welcome to call them Hindus. In fact, all you are welcome... and you don’t even have to convert. After all, "Hindu" are the people living near great river Sindhu. Nothing to do with a particular religion.

The religion was called "Vedic" religion. Our forefathers envisioned it and created the glory and wisdom that survived 6000 years. Still vibrant ; still thriving. For one reason or another (awe/greed/fear/what-not) your fathers had to decide to convert to Islam but Hindu you remain - IF, yes IF, you can live up to that standard that our common forefathers envisioned - Assimilation.

I also disagree with Dr. Saleem's diagnosis that it's the leaders who are making difference. Do you think Mr. Jinnah would agree with your statement “Our culture, our traditions and our cuisine are all the same?”. It invalidates his two nation theory. It's the open-mindedness of people in India v/s narrow-mindedness of people in Pakistan. We welcomed all. You rejected all - including your own (Ahmadias – Kadiyanis – Bengalis – Hindus ). Now the jehadis are rejecting you. In spite of bearing the same religion.

Anonymous said...

Farrukh's view is rather simplistic. Using his logic, India's 900 M or so living below $1/day should also be attributed to the 'elected politicians'.

China has no elected politicians, or free press, and has 50,000 'minders' whose job is to monitor the use of internet.

Fact is elected politicians or not, they are not the driver of India's policies. India's drive has been a combination of its hard work, education, and taking advantage of the capitalistic system and offering a value proposition to the richer economies.

Farrukh, life is not as simple comparing DNA and tastes of movies. They are larger in size, and also (proportionately/per capita) a better technical/engineering education system that has allowed not the just the talent, but the critical mass of engineers in the examples you quote. Pls expand your horizons by looking at other examples and also the real reasoning that Indian companies have been successful and the correlation does not translate as simply as 'elected leaders'.

Aahuti said...

I totally agree with the above, its a combination of all, and even pakistanis can do it, if they can be a bit more flexible and observe all the good things offered by other countries, rather them just thinking about religion and kaum,

A simple cricket match loss against india, made the pakistani captain apologize to muslim brother, if pakistanis have this kind of thinking in all the other matters then its really sad for them.

Zainab Muhammad said...

Brothers,

Pakistanis and Indians may share the same genes but only Pakistan is a Muslim-majority nation. Insha Allah, this has helped us become economically backward and quite illiterate. Let us hope that our Muslim brothers in India reproduce fast enough to turn India into a Muslim-majority nation. When it happens, India too will become economically backward and illiterate.

Please go back to praying 5 times a day.

Anonymous said...

That is the most sadist comment i have ever heard, Mr Zainab, if you really believe this can happen, then allah save you.........

People should realise that the phrase, "as you sow, so shall you reap" is very true....The latest example being late Mrs. Benazir Bhutto.............The trap that you setup for others can be a trap for you as well............America had fallen into its own trap (Bin Laden) and now pakistan is going the same way, but you guys still have time, rather then counting on indian muslims to pull india backward (which anyways is not going to happen, cause we the educated youth of india wont let it happen) you guys should channelize ur energy towards creating an educated and good society within pakistan.

Anonymous said...

@ above

Zainab Muhammad's comment is a satire rather than malevolent comment.

Karthik said...

You've ignored a more important point here as a few have pointed out.

The difference is the visions of the two nations. India was envisioned as a secular, democratic state. Divisive forces cannot do much in such a state. We do have a strong hindu nationalistic presence today but the nation started out with a secular vision inspite of a huge hindu majority. If your vision's right and you implement your vision to an acceptable extent, you make progress. The implementation is where maintaining a democracy comes in - like, free and fair elections, freedom of press. India is considered a flawed democracy, but those are because of implementation headaches - corruption, red tape etc. But Pakistan has its sights on the wrong things.

You said our cultures are the same. No, they are not. They were same, a 100 years back. You are missing the power of the recent past. India has made a choice, a leap, in this time by channelizing its resources out of unwanted directions. Pakistan hasn't.

Anonymous said...

Aren't islam and democracy opposing ideologies? Won't giving complete freedom to a Kafir contradict some of the basic principles of islam?

On another point, I being a humble Hindu am quite insulted to read that the "brave" sons of gouris and gazanavis are the same people like me. You guys may be arabs or whatever but you have nothing in common with us the humble Hindus of India.

May allah have mercy on you.

But, please leave us alone. We don't want to have anything to do with you guys under present conditions.

Allah hu akbar!

IdLi SaMbar said...

Just like I thought there are quite a few who tend to disagree with the premise that Indians electing out leaders has got to do with anything that Dr Farrukh Saleem has mentioned. The rich people don't elect leaders, it's the masses that do it and the masses in India are still by far economically backward.

The so called "elected" leaders have NOTHING & I repeat NOTHING to do with any of Dr Farrukh's list of rich Indian people. If there was not enough to be done within India, these people would have gone elsewhere to do it... I'm surprised Dr Farrukh didn't mention the Steel Magnet Lakshmi Mittal and Liquor Baron Vijay Mallya.

The only difference between India and Pakistan is the sum-total terrorism density (by area of course) / economic stability within the country. I'm definitely not denying the fact that India is hit with local terrorism but the density I believe is less and is spaced apart..

Maybe they have to dig up the gene studies a little harder to find the missing link - may be there has been enough mutation that they don't share the same genetic combinations that Indian's have... Maybe they've gotten better at other things that Indians lack - Self Esteem.

Vande Mataram to both our nations - for whatever it's worth

Anonymous said...

The comment from Mr. Zainab is not supising and it is people like him who's capale of pulling any couty backword, so what is the intention of any religion? to pull a coutry or a race backwords.. quite interesting may god sav Pak from the clutuches of peopl like Zainab.

Anonymous said...

" 38 percent of doctors in America are Indian; 36 percent of NASA scientists are Indians; 34 percent of Microsoft employees are Indians; and 28 percent of IBM employees are Indians."

These stats are completely, absolutely, totally false. Look at any health insurance directory of physicians and more than a third dont have Indian names; same with your other figures - IBM employs sales people, trainers, accountants, janitors, you name it. A fourth of them aren't Indians.

I dont know how legitimate the rest of your analysis is, but the quality of your "facts" is simply awful.

Ali J Siddiqui said...

Ali J Siddiqui
JS Group
www.js.com

A REBUTTAL TO DR. SALEEM's ARTICLE:

With due respect to Dr. Saleem, while I agree with the general point that India is far ahead of Pakistan, and that we must learn from our mistakes as well as the successes of India, there are serious flaws that I must point out. At the end of my post below I argue that Pakistan isn't doing as bad as Dr. Saleem suggests.

1. There are many legitimate billionaires in Pakistan. They are just not reported on the Forbes list so they are not commonly known. This is a common occurance. Many countries have billionaires that are secretive and their wealth is hard to track for Forbes. I do not wish to name names but they come from a diverse range of sectors including real estate, financial services, energy and manufacturing. Most lack the vision and entrepreneurship of Indian entrepreneurs but they are billionaires nonetheless.

2. India's population is approximately 7 times that of Pakistan. Before we start claiming that a handful of Indian companies or businesspeople can buy our entire stock market, it is important to remember that comparing Pakistan to India is similar to comparing Pakistan to China and unfair unless we adjust for population.

3. As there are 7 times more Indians than Pakistani's (and both countries have similar GDP/capita) Indians have at least 7x the buying power. But the world values Indian companies at 2-20 times more per unit of earnings than Pakistani companies and therefore, the buying power is magnified significantly (Indian Buying Power = Pakistani Buying Power x 7 x [2-20] or Pakistani Buying Power x [14-140]).

4. Its not so easy to compare economies, market capitalizations and the fact that one group of people can buy another country. We could compare Pakistan to Bangladesh (WHICH HAS A POPULATION SIMILAR TO PAKISTAN AND PRESUMABLY THE SAME DNA MARKER M124) and I could (in a manner similar to Dr. Saleem's) 'prove' that a handful of Pakistani's could buy the entire Dhaka Stock Exchange. According to http://www.bdstock.com/marketcapitalization.htm the Dhaka Stock Exchange has a market capitalization of under US$10 billion (Sept 2007). The Government of Pakistan could therefore sell its holding in OGDC and PPL and use the money to buy Bangladesh. We would therefore own the entire market cap and all employees of Bengali listed companies would become Government of Pakistani employees or civil servants! Novel idea isn't it?

Rebuttal:

The fact is that India and Pakistan have similar GDP/capita i.e. Indian and Pakistani individuals (living in the respective countries) have similar annual output.

India, with its superior education, stronger access to capital, better domestic security, better courts and rule of law and democracy is growing faster. Like Pakistan, it has some problems (such as an energy shortage) that is limiting growth but its pulling its people out of poverty faster than we are.

Pakistan has plenty of issues but we are still growing above 6%. Which isn't bad.

Finally, countries or people can't be measured on economics (who can buy whom) alone but must be compared on human indicators. Are Swedes more successful as a nation or Americans? Swedes pay more in taxes but are economically more successful (adjusted for population) and progressive (more women in business and government for example).

Comparisons are never easy. Pakistan's problems are not those of economics, but of harmony and unity.

On a separate note, while Mr. Saleem portrays the success of a particular Indian entrepreneur by the fact that he is building a US$1 billion home, this is a matter of opinion. While Mr. Ambani, whom I respect immensely for his success, drive and competitivemness, a better example would be the billionaires and millionaires of Infosys (such as Mr. Murthy) who choose to live simple lives despite their immense wealth. In other words, Billion Dollar homes are not a mark of success, humility is. Perhaps that is where Pakistani's can learn most from our neighbours.

Ali J Siddiqui
JS Group
www.js.com

Anonymous said...

Sorry..it's NOT JUST because India has a democracy..it's the material fact that Pakistan to the point of murder and bloodshed wanted it's own little pissing field at the time of Independance...Pakistan is merly reaping what it has sowed.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Siddiqui, I was very much impressed with you comment and do want to tell you that pakistan needs people like you , if it want to progress......

But then again some credit has to be given to the indians, cause even we have our oen share of issues and problems.........like corruption and terrorism......which have really hold us back.......But we have tried to make it, and We will........

Anonymous said...

Now ... now! So much anger!

Mr. Siddiqui is right. Pakistan has done well and we should wish them even more success. Not only has Pakistan done well economically but look at their pride. They are the true sons of gouris and gaznavis.

They are not afraid to kill be it Indians , Afgans or anybody else. If it comes to honor they don't even spare their own people - daily news. After all what is this life if one can go to heaven and eternally live with hoors.

So please quiet down and wish them even more success.

And, they are clever, much more clever than Indians. They get tens of billions of dollars of aid just to give a few presentations to the West to convince them that they are fighting terrorism. They then go and use that money to train more jihadis.

Do you really think Bibi Bhutto had a chance?

And look at Indians! They fight terrorism be it in Gujarat or Kashmir and yet they get no aid! And when they do well nobody even acknowledges. When the pundits in Kashmir are wiped out, did you hear any complaint from Indians? They are meek and humble unlike brave sons of gouris and gaznavis.

Allah hu akbar!

Anonymous said...

WHAT A DEMOCRACY!

Dr. Saleem's article raises a few interesting points. Though he has some significant flaws in his arguement

1) India a democracy? Lets see: There was Nehru, Then his daughter Indra, Then her son Rajiv, Currently his wife Sonia runs the place and his children are preparing for the throne. Looks like a Monarchy to me.

2) Oh lets not forget the few years of power in the middle by the racist BJP and their allies the Shiv Sena. Minorities in Bombay, Gujrat and Kashmir and dalits (untouchables) everywhere did wonderfully by having themselves burned alive during that period

3) If terrorism is state sponsored a country can remain united and on the surface a democracy. In India for example, Killing muslims in Kashmir or Gujrat or Bombay. Or killing other minorities such as Sikhs in East Punjab (Golden Temple anyone) or dalits (untouchables) by State seems OK. Does anyone even bother remembering how various classes of people in our society are treated?

4) We are richer than the Pakistani's


Long live our racist society

Anonymous said...

I'll tell you what.. you pakis can go on "protecting" your religion andtryin 2 blow up a few bombs in kashmir and USA while we Indians march on to become one of the most and soon the most powerful country in the world... be it economically, politically or militarily.. I'm telling you because I voted that I don't mind the rule of Manmohan Singh (who is not related to the Gandhi clan btw) as India has progressed by bounds and leaps under him.. We just had a Muslim President and even right now we have a Sikh prime minister which is enough to prove that we are not biased in terms of religion in any way... anyone who deserves power n riches gets it in our country.. Im glad I was born here.. Pakistan sucks

Anonymous said...

ONE most important thing the writer forgot to mention . Indians in india are still practicing their forfathers culture,religion and are proud of that also are free in thinking while Poor Pakisatnis have taken up arebic alien culture of slave mentality and slave in thinking and actions.
I see no future for them.History has said clearly people who give up the ancestors religion are sure to be doomed .

Anonymous said...

Come on Dr. Saleem! We are not doing that badly! Look at our achievements:

We have nuclear bombs. We can deliver them anywhere in India. Our ISI has penetrated all the important organizations in India. We can deliver a suicide bomb anywhere in India.

We have very good relations with China and they will come our rescue whenever we need them.

Look at the wonderful relationship we have with America. We get billions of dollars of aid just for asking.

Our military is one of the best in the world and we can defeat Indian military anytime.

We have the most well trained jihadis in the world. As a matter of fact nowhere has there been a jihad where we did not have our young men/women participate to make a point.

We are brave just like our fore-fathers e.g. gouris and gaznavis.

Look at our achievements. When we became independent, 26% of our population was Hindus/Sikhs. And, now? And nobody, I mean nobody (not even Hindus) has ever objected to this ethnic cleansing. Did we ever have a Hindu?Sikh president or a prime minister? We are not stupid.

Since independence Indian muslim population has increased not only in absolute terms but also as a percentage. We forced them to have a muslim president. We forced them to have a muslim vice-president. Hundreds of their leaders both at state-level and the centre are muslims. And, we are so smart that we can prove that they racists and we are not. Isn’t this a great achievement!

And, above all we have kept our faith. When we die we will go to jahanutt and we will be presented with hoors for all these achievements.

So, Dr. Saleem please be reasonable and try to appreciate our greatness. We are not as bad as you make us look.

Pakistan zindabad!

Rachhpaul said...

Sir

In order for anyone to improve or compete, one should try and remember a very simple thing, which was said by George Bernard Shaw " PROGRESS IS IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT CHANGE, AND THOSE WHO CANNOT CHANGE THEIR MINDS CANNOT CHANGE ANYTHING". Our brothers in Pakistan have to change their minds first!

It will be only through change that we can improve, either as a country, a nation or its people.

We must move with time and time will stop for none; even for The God.

We are humans. We should care more about other humans, instead of living in the past.

Past is gone; tomorrow will never come; let us talk about TODAY.

We can change and we can change for better!!

Faithfully
Darbari RACHHPAUL Singh Bedi LL.B(Hons), Dip.P&H

Anonymous said...

Mr. Bedi you are a lawyer and we have no doubts that you are good lawyer. But, Sir, progress of human kind will not come though modern courts, it will come by obeying the words of Allah, it will come through sharia.

Islam is the most modern religion. Therefore, as you have correctly pointed out that everyone should change to improve. Everyone should start following Islam to be a better human.

Pakistan is doing badly because its residents do not adhere to the principles of Islam entirely. Look what Islam has done all over the world. Isn’t it great!

First of all, wherever our brothers go they convert everybody to Islam, for their own good. Examples are enormous: Pakistan, Afghanistan, Persia, Egypt, Turkey, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, many countries in Central Asia, Iraq, ……

And, wherever we haven’t attained complete conversion but we have a substantial presence we fight to convert and attain an Islamic state. Of-course, we do all this for the good of mankind. Again, examples are enormous: India, UK, France, Lebanon, Sudan, Ethiopia, Palestine, Philippines, Thailand, ……

Furthermore, we never rest. Even those places where we have attained complete conversion we are always at jihad with the evil amongst us. Again, examples are enormous: Pakistan, Afghanistan, Persia, Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Tunisia, Algeria,, Iraq, ……

Please try to imagine! The whole world becoming islamist: the final peace such as in the true muslim (pure, pak) countries, will be attained. We will be taught the real science as revealed in kuran. Mullahs will show us the path to heaven where we will be presented with hoors.

We hope you understand that Allah the almighty is merciful but it does not have infinite patience with Kafirs.

Allah hu akbar!

Anonymous said...

Let us not brag about a handful of billionaires and hundred of millionaires, pity the lot of the whole one billion of the humanity that is starving.

Jai Hind.
Anonymous

Dawn....सेहर said...

fact based and well written post, I must agree but the way you are comparing itself is wrong!
Comparison is between apples and oranges and it will never be correct!
Religion is one thing and growth is another besides all this its not the leaders who have made the country better but its the people and the minds of people.
The broad mindedness and narrow minds will always be going in opposite direction and hence its not only about the same food, culture, movie and songs!
At least this should be a message to Pakistanis as - lets wake up!!
Good Luck

Cheers

Anonymous said...

Could I refer all interested persons to an excellent article by Vir Sanghvi in the Hindustan Times, 5th Jan '08, entitled "Two Nations, Two Choices". It is dispassionate, doesn't elevate India to the skies, doesn't denigrate Pakistan's achievements and gives ample food for thought. You'll find it on the Net

Anonymous said...

Why does everything written about India and Pakistan have to turn into a heated debate as to who is what? Come on all of you, grow up into mature and sensible people. We all (Indians/Pakistanis/others/everyone) have both our good points as well as bad. We have to learn to look into our bad points as well and try to remove them in order to improve ourselves. If we only look at how good we are and always be critical of others we can never make any progress. We have to learn from our own mistakes and from the good of others in order to move towards progress. This brings us to Mr. Hassan Abbas' article. Very well written and a good point made.

Anonymous said...

To comment on to Ali J Siddiqui

Yes, Pakistan definitely has secretive billionair Fugitive like Dawood Ibrahim and Osama.

And to comment on Zainab Muhammad. You seem to have missed out 2 key names in these discussions Mr. Azim Premji as Farrukh Saleem said and APJ Kalam they are muslims as well. And in India we only see each other as Indians.

And, would call upon all Indians to regard them as Indians first and only then Hindu or Muslims.

UN may have given the responsibility for the elections in Afghanistan but we still havent's secured a permenant position in the UN Council.

There is no point in comparing and arguing with each other when our Nuclear policies are defined by America and our stock exchange is speculated by FII (Foreign Institutional Investors).

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your excellent post - we don't see too many of them on these sites.

Your writing tells me that you are of a Hindu upbringing. Nevertheless, even if you are not, please accept my gratefulness for being so open minded.

It is people like you have and will make India a great nation, and not the so called leaders.

I only wish there were more like you in South Asia.

Om_na_ma_si_va_ya!

Anonymous said...

Don't mean to offend, but there are some hard truths in my post.

After reading all the posts so far, I must say that a lot of truth has been stated. Let me do the hard part of calling a spade a spade.

Dr. Farouk's research is good, but his analysis is almost totally incorrect, as pointed out by almost everyone. Maybe he didn't have the stomach to admit what is really wrong, and almost everyone else has straight away zeroed in on it. Also you have to be outside a problem, to be able to observe it fully.

The reason Pakistan and the Pakistanis are on the path of self destruction, is Islam. Islam is the curse not only on Pakistan, but on the whole of humanity. The Muslims suffer because of islam. And Non-Muslims suffer because of the muslims!

Look around the world. the poorest countries are muslim. The most backward countries, are muslim. The most violent countries are muslim. Muslims are the only people in the world who blow themselves up to kill their own kind.

What ever anyone may say about islam being modern or peaceful, the truth is completely the opposite. the world has not seen a day of peace since islam. Even India endured 700 years of murder and savagery under their hands.

The sad truth is that nothing about the muslims or islam will ever change. they will always be cursed by God, to remain what they are.

They even suffer God's wrath in their so called holy city of Mekkah. Every year, hundreds die in stampedes during the Haj itself. Four years ago, more than 400 died. Last year more than 300. And the statistics keep going.

Last year, they captured a group of Al Qaeda operatives in Mecca who had come to kill more muslims with their bombs. God knows what will happen this year, if the authorities don't catch them first!

What goes around comes around. Indians call it the 'Law of Karma'. As someone wrote earlier, 'What you sow, so you shall reap'. Muslims don't stop killing innocents. God is killing them in their holiest city, and yet they claim that only they are the religion approved by God. Everyone else must either be converted or killed.

The only way out for them is to leave islam, as propagated by their own ex-muslim, Ali Sinna. Please visit his website - faithfreedom.org. and read the testimonies of those who have left and found freedom from the murderous clutches of islam. They can become Buddhists, Hindus, Christians or Sikh. That will be their only salvation.

As Ali Sinna says, contrary to the fabricated mistruth that the fastest growing religion in the world is islam, the truth is that the fastest growing religion in the world is Muslim Apostacy! Thousands are leaving, mostly secretly, doing so because if discovered, they are to be stoned to death as their punishment. That is the babaric practice of this religion that some folks here are claiming to be the most modern religion.

I live in Malaysia. Malaysia is touted to be a "successful muslim country' to try to get other muslim countries to get going. But why would someome use such terms, unless all muslim countries are struggling or failed nations.

I saw posters along roads in the southern Malaysian city of Johor Bahru asking Muslims to be vigilant and to fight the enemies of islam because 250,000 MALAYSIAN MUSLIMS HAD BECOME APOSTATE (MURTAD). The problem is huge. No one is admitting it, thats all.

In Malaysia, the muslim men marry four wives, then send each one of them to work in factories. They each bring home USD 250. At the end of every month, he collects USD 1000 from them. It only costs USD 200 to feed them. He doesn't do any worthwhile work, has all the sex that he wants and has USD 800 left over at the end of every month, much more than he needs. Now, you folks chew on that and explain to me why it is not islam that has cursed these people to be forever poor and backward.

Dr Farouk, its got nothing to do with politics. its got everything to do with your religion.

Anonymous said...

How dare you criticize the religion of Allah? Nobody ever criticizes this “religion of peace” without dire consequences. Soon fatwas will be issued against you! Do you know that in islam an apostate is hunted and condemned to death for such an unspoken crime? How dare you tell the world what is actually happening in the world of islam?

Islam is a religion of “brotherhood”. Once one becomes a “brother”, there is no going back. It is a one way street. How else do you think islam has multiplied? It is a religion of intelligence. islam is not stupid like Hindus who do not want others to be converted to Hinduism and thus limit their own growth.

islam is not stupid like Hinduism to declare that there are literally infinite paths to God and Hinduism is only one of many. Islam teaches us that islam the only true religion and all other religions are false. And, it is the duty of every muslim to eliminate all Kafirs and thus bring peace to this earth. This earth is divided into good and bad i.e Dar'al Harb and Dar'al Islam. mulsims will rest when every Kafir has been eliminated and the whole earth has become Dar'al Islam.

islam has just begun. Afghanistan, Lebanon, Pakistan, Palestine, Sudan, Nigeria, Iraq, Iran, Indonesia, Thailand … are just the start. What happens next? Read history. Or read Dr. Sina: http://www.faithfreedom.org/

Whether you read the history of Persia, Misur (Egypt), the Assyria, Mesopotamia or Hindustan you will find that islam was able create destruction of knowledge of civilizations beyond imagination. If you think “it will be different this time”, keep on dreaming. Those who don’t learn from history and condemned to live it again.

By the way there is hope. we can all become muslims and bring peace to this earth. We will all go to juhunnut and enjoy eternal peace there with many…many hoors.

Allah Hu Akbar!

Deepak said...

The post is too myopic. AJ did a nice analysis. Instead of comparing Pakistan and India, and how they have performed over the past few decades, it will be better to compare them with the West. Any DNA difference between the East and the West??

The sky is not the limit and so is our stupidity.

Long live both the countries !

Anonymous said...

This is a childish article. Shockingly bad, to be honest.

Ruchir
India